charmides-第11部分

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modest；　and　that　temperance　is　the　same　as　modesty。







Very　good；　I　said；　and　did　you　not　admit；　just　now；　that　temperance　is



noble？







Yes；　certainly；　he　said。







And　the　temperate　are　also　good？







Yes。







And　can　that　be　good　which　does　not　make　men　good？







Certainly　not。







And　you　would　infer　that　temperance　is　not　only　noble；　but　also　good？







That　is　my　opinion。







Well；　I　said；　but　surely　you　would　agree　with　Homer　when　he　says；







'Modesty　is　not　good　for　a　needy　man'？







Yes；　he　said；　I　agree。







Then　I　suppose　that　modesty　is　and　is　not　good？







Clearly。







But　temperance；　whose　presence　makes　men　only　good；　and　not　bad；　is　always



good？







That　appears　to　me　to　be　as　you　say。







And　the　inference　is　that　temperance　cannot　be　modestyif　temperance　is　a



good；　and　if　modesty　is　as　much　an　evil　as　a　good？







All　that；　Socrates；　appears　to　me　to　be　true；　but　I　should　like　to　know



what　you　think　about　another　definition　of　temperance；　which　I　just　now



remember　to　have　heard　from　some　one；　who　said；　'That　temperance　is　doing



our　own　business。'　　Was　he　right　who　affirmed　that？







You　monster！　I　said；　this　is　what　Critias；　or　some　philosopher　has　told



you。







Some　one　else；　then；　said　Critias；　for　certainly　I　have　not。







But　what　matter；　said　Charmides；　from　whom　I　heard　this？







No　matter　at　all；　I　replied；　for　the　point　is　not　who　said　the　words；　but



whether　they　are　true　or　not。







There　you　are　in　the　right；　Socrates；　he　replied。







To　be　sure；　I　said；　yet　I　doubt　whether　we　shall　ever　be　able　to　discover



their　truth　or　falsehood；　for　they　are　a　kind　of　riddle。







What　makes　you　think　so？　he　said。







Because；　I　said；　he　who　uttered　them　seems　to　me　to　have　meant　one　thing；



and　said　another。　　Is　the　scribe；　for　example；　to　be　regarded　as　doing



nothing　when　he　reads　or　writes？







I　should　rather　think　that　he　was　doing　something。







And　does　the　scribe　write　or　read；　or　teach　you　boys　to　write　or　read；　your



own　names　only；　or　did　you　write　your　enemies'　names　as　well　as　your　own



and　your　friends'？







As　much　one　as　the　other。







And　was　there　anything　meddling　or　intemperate　in　this？







Certainly　not。







And　yet　if　reading　and　writing　are　the　same　as　doing；　you　were　doing　what



was　not　your　own　business？







But　they　are　the　same　as　doing。







And　the　healing　art；　my　friend；　and　building；　and　weaving；　and　doing



anything　whatever　which　is　done　by　art；these　all　clearly　come　under　the



head　of　doing？







Certainly。







And　do　you　think　that　a　state　would　be　well　ordered　by　a　law　which



compelled　every　man　to　weave　and　wash　his　own　coat；　and　make　his　own　shoes；



and　his　own　flask　and　strigil；　and　other　implements；　on　this　principle　of



every　one　doing　and　performing　his　own；　and　abstaining　from　what　is　not　his



own？







I　think　not；　he　said。







But；　I　said；　a　temperate　state　will　be　a　well…ordered　state。







Of　course；　he　replied。







Then　temperance；　I　said；　will　not　be　doing　one's　own　business；　not　at　least



in　this　way；　or　doing　things　of　this　sort？







Clearly　not。







Then；　as　I　was　just　now　saying；　he　who　declared　that　temperance　is　a　man



doing　his　own　business　had　another　and　a　hidden　meaning；　for　I　do　not　think



that　he　could　have　been　such　a　fool　as　to　mean　this。　　Was　he　a　fool　who



told　you；　Charmides？







Nay；　he　replied；　I　certainly　thought　him　a　very　wise　man。







Then　I　am　quite　certain　that　he　put　forth　his　definition　as　a　riddle；



thinking　that　no　one　would　know　the　meaning　of　the　words　'doing　his　own



business。'







I　dare　say；　he　replied。







And　what　is　the　meaning　of　a　man　doing　his　own　business？　　Can　you　tell　me？







Indeed；　I　cannot；　and　I　should　not　wonder　if　the　man　himself　who　used　this



phrase　did　not　understand　what　he　was　saying。　　Whereupon　he　laughed　slyly；



and　looked　at　Critias。







Critias　had　long　been　showing　uneasiness；　for　he　felt　that　he　had　a



reputation　to　maintain　with　Charmides　and　the　rest　of　the　company。　　He　had；



however；　hitherto　managed　to　restrain　himself；　but　now　he　could　no　longer



forbear；　and　I　am　convinced　of　the　truth　of　the　suspicion　which　I



entertained　at　the　time；　that　Charmides　had　heard　this　answer　about



temperance　from　Critias。　　And　Charmides；　who　did　not　want　to　answer



himself；　but　to　make　Critias　answer；　tried　to　stir　him　up。　　He　went　on



pointing　out　that　he　had　been　refuted；　at　which　Critias　grew　angry；　and



appeared；　as　I　thought；　inclined　to　quarrel　with　him；　just　as　a　poet　might



quarrel　with　an　actor　who　spoiled　his　poems　in　repeating　them；　so　he　looked



hard　at　him　and　said







Do　you　imagine；　Charmides；　that　the　author　of　this　definition　of　temperance



did　not　understand　the　meaning　of　his　own　words；　because　you　do　not



understand　them？







Why；　at　his　age；　I　said；　most　excellent　Critias；　he　can　hardly　be　expected



to　understand；　but　you；　who　are　older；　and　have　studied；　may　well　be



assumed　to　know　the　meaning　of　them；　and　therefore；　if　you　agree　with　him；



and　accept　his　definition　of　temperance；　I　would　much　rather　argue　with　you



than　with　him　about　the　truth　or　falsehood　of　the　definition。







I　entirely　agree；　said　Critias；　and　accept　the　definition。







Very　good；　I　said；　and　now　let　me　repeat　my　questionDo　you　admit；　as　I



was　just　now　saying；　that　all　craftsmen　make　or　do　something？







I　do。







And　do　they　make　or　do　their　own　business　only；　or　that　of　others　also？







They　make　or　do　that　of　others　also。







And　are　they　temperate；　seeing　that　they　make　not　for　themselves　or　their



own　business　only？







Why　not？　he　said。







No　objection　on　my　part；　I　said；　but　there　may　be　a　difficulty　on　his　who



proposes　as　a　definition　of　temperance；　'doing　one's　own　business；'　and



then　says　that　there　is　no　reason　why　those　who　do　the　business　of　others



should　not　be　temperate。







Nay　（The　English　reader　has　to　observe　that　the　word　'make'　（Greek）；　in



Greek；　has　also　the　sense　of　'do'　（Greek）。）；　said　he；　did　I　ever



acknowledge　that　those　who　do　the　business　of　others　are　temperate？　　I



said；　those　who　make；　not　those　who　do。







What！　I　asked；　do　you　mean　to　say　that　doing　and　making　are　not　the　same？







No　more；　he　replied；　than　making　or　working　are　the　same；　thus　much　I　have



learned　from　Hesiod；　who　says　that　'work　is　no　disgrace。'　　Now　do　you



imagine　that　if　he　had　meant　by　working　and　doing　such　things　as　you　were



describing；　he　would　have　said　that　there　was　no　disgrace　in　themfor



example；　in　the　manufacture　of　shoes；　or　in　selling　pickles；　or　sitting　for



hire　in　a　house　of　ill…fame？　　That；　Socrates；　is　not　to　be　supposed：　　but　I



conceive　him　to　have　distinguished　making　from　doing　and　work；　and；　while



admitting　that　the　making　anything　might　sometimes　become　a　disgrace；　when



the　employment　was　not　honourable；　to　have　thought　that　work　was　never　any



disgrace　at　all。　　For　things　nobly　and　usefully　made　he　called　works；　and



such　makings　he　called　workings；　and　doings；　and　he　must　be　supposed　to



have　called　such　things　only　man's　proper　business；　and　what　is　hurtful；



not　his　business：　　and　in　that　sense　Hesiod；　and　any　other　wise　man；　may　be



reasonably　supposed　to　call　him　wise　who　does　his　own　work。







O　Critias；　I　said；　no　sooner　had　you　opened　your　mouth；　than　I　pretty　well



knew　that　you　would　call　that　which　is　proper　to　a　man；　and　that　which　is



his　own；　good；　and　that　the　makings　（Greek）　of　the　good　you　would　call



doings　（Greek）；　for　I　am　no　stranger　to　the　endless　distinctions　which



Prodicus　draws　about　names。　　Now　I　have　no　objection　to　your　giving　names



any　signification　which　you　please；　if　you　will　only　tell　me　what　you　mean



by　them。　　Please　then　to　begin　again；　and　be　a　little　plainer。　　Do　you　mean



that　this　doing　or　making；　or　whatever　is　the　word　which　you　would　use；　of



good　actions；　is　temperance？







I　do；　he　said。







Then　not　he　who　does　evil；　but　he　who　does　good；　is　temperate？







Yes；　he　said；　and　you；　friend；　would　agree。







No　matter　whether　I　should　or　not；　just　now；　not　what　I　think；　but　what　you



are　saying；　is　the　point　at　issue。







Well；　he　answered；　I　mean　to　say；　that　he　who　does　evil；　and　not　good；　is