russia in 1919(1919的俄国)-第33部分
按键盘上方向键 ← 或 → 可快速上下翻页，按键盘上的 Enter 键可回到本书目录页，按键盘上方向键 ↑ 可回到本页顶部！
————未阅读完？加入书签已便下次继续阅读！
That it would not do。 But the quickest way of restoring good conditions
in Russia was； of course； peace and agreement with the Allies。 〃I am
sure we could come to terms； if they want to come to terms at all。 England
and America would be willing； perhaps； if their hands were not tied by
France。 But intervention in the large sense can now hardly be。 They must
have learnt that Russia could never be governed as India is governed； and
that sending troops here is the same thing as sending them to a Communist
University。〃
I said something about the general hostility to their propaganda
noticeable in foreign countries。
Lenin。 〃Tell them to build a Chinese wall round each of their
countries。 They have their customs…officers； their frontiers； their coast…
guards。 They can expel any Bolsheviks they wish。 Revolution does not
depend on propaganda。 If the conditions of revolution are not there no
sort of propaganda will either hasten or impede it。 The war has brought
about those conditions in all countries； and I am convinced that if Russia
today were to be swallowed up by the sea； were to cease to exist altogether；
the revolution in the rest of Europe would go on。 Put Russia under water
for twenty years； and you would not affect by a shilling or an hour a week
… Page 123…
RUSSIA IN 1919
the demand； of the shop…stewards in England。〃
I told him； what I have told most of them many times； that I did not
believe there would be a revolution in England。
Lenin。 〃We have a saying that a man may have typhoid while still on
his legs。 Twenty； maybe thirty years ago I had abortive typhoid； and was
going about with it； had had it some days before it knocked me over。 Well；
England and France and Italy have caught the disease already。 England
may seem to you to be untouched； but the microbe is already there。〃
I said that just as his typhoid was abortive typhoid； so the
disturbances in England to which he alluded might well be abortive
revolution； and come to nothing。 I told him the vague； disconnected
character of the strikes and the generally liberal as opposed to socialist
character of the movement； so far as it was political at all； reminded me
of what I had heard of 1905 in Russia and not at all of 1917； and that I was
sure it would settle down。
Lenin。 〃Yes； that is possible。 It is； perhaps； an educative period； in
which the English workmen will come to realize their political needs； and
turn from liberalism to Socialism。 Socialism is certainly weak in England。
Your socialist movements； your socialist parties 。 。 。 when I was in
England I zealously attended everything I could； and for a country with so
large an industrial population they were pitiable； pitiable 。 。 。 a handful at a
street corner 。 。 。 a meeting in a drawing room 。 。 。 a school class 。 。 。
pitiable。 But you must remember one great difference between Russia of
1905 and England of to…day。 Our first Soviet in Russia was made during
the revolution。 Your shop…stewards committees have been in existence
long before。 They are without programme； without direction； but the
opposition they will meet will force a programme upon them。〃
Speaking of the expected visit of the Berne delegation； he asked me if
I knew MacDonald； whose name had been substituted for that of
Henderson in later telegrams announcing their coming。 He ；said： 〃I am
very glad MacDonald is coming instead of Henderson。 Of course
MacDonald is not a Marxist in any sense of the word； but he is at least
interested in theory； and can therefore be trusted to do his best to
understand what is happening here。 More than that we do not ask。〃
… Page 124…
RUSSIA IN 1919
We then talked a little on a subject that interests me very much；
namely； the way in which insensibly； quite apart from war； the Communist
theories are being modified in the difficult process of their translation into
practice。 We talked of the changes in 〃workers' control；〃 which is now a
very different thing from the wild committee business that at first made
work almost impossible。 We talked then of the antipathy of the peasants
to compulsory communism； and how that idea also had been considerably
whittled away。 I asked him what were going to be the relations between
the Communists of the towns and the property…loving peasants； and
whether there was not great danger of antipathy between them； and said I
regretted leaving too soon to see the elasticity of the Communist theories
tested by the inevitable pressure of the peasantry。
Lenin said that in Russia there was a pretty sharp distinction between
the rich peasants and the poor。 〃The only opposition we have here in
Russia is directly or indirectly due to the rich peasants。 The poor； as soon
as they are liberated from the political domination of the rich； are on our
side and are in an enormous majority。〃
I said that would not be so in the Ukraine； where property among the
peasants is much more equally distributed。
Lenin。 〃No。 And there； in the Ukraine； you will certainly see our
policy modified。 Civil war； whatever happens； is likely to be more bitter
in the Ukraine than elsewhere； because there the instinct of property has
been further developed in the peasantry； and the minority and majority will
be more equal。〃
He asked me if I meant to return； saying that I could go down to Kiev
to watch the revolution there as I had watched it in Moscow。 I said I
should be very sorry to think that this was my last visit to the country
which I love only second to my own。 He laughed； and paid me the
compliment of saying that； 〃although English；〃 I had more or less
succeeded in understanding what they were at； and that he should be
pleased to see me again。
… Page 125…
RUSSIA IN 1919
THE JOURNEY OUT
March 15th。
There is nothing to record about the last few days of my visit； fully
occupied as they were with the collection and packing of printed material
and preparations for departure。 I left with the two Americans； Messrs。
Bullitt and Steffens； who had come to Moscow some days previously； and
travelled up in the train with Bill Shatov； the Commandant of Petrograd；
who is not a Bolshevik but a fervent admirer of Prince Kropotkin； for the
distribution of whose works in Russia he has probably done as much as
any man。 Shatov was an emigr=82 in New York； returned to Russia；
brought law and order into the chaos of the Petrograd…Moscow railway；
never lost a chance of doing a good turn to an American； and with his
level…headedness and practical sense became one of the hardest worked
servants of the Soviet； although； as he said； the moment people stopped
attacking them he would be the first to pull down the Bolsheviks。 He
went into the occupied provinces during the German evacuation of them；
to buy arms and ammunition from the German soldiers。 Prices； he said；
ran low。 You could buy rifles for a mark each； field guns for 150 marks；
and a field wireless station for 500。 He had then been made
Commandant of Petrograd； although there had been some talk of setting
him to reorganize transport。 Asked how long he thought the Soviet
Government could hold but； he replied； 〃We can afford to starve another
year for the sake of the Revolution。〃
